Tag Archives: forum

Witch Law… Discussion

Witch Law…

In Robert Cochrane’s sixth letter to Joe Wilson, he named what he called the Witch “Law”:

Do not do what you desire – do what is necessary.
Take all you are given – give all of yourself.
“What I have – I hold!”
When all else is lost, and not until then, prepare to die with dignity.

I was just wondering, since there are many versions of witchcraft besides Robert Cochrane’s, what people think of these laws?

FFF
~Muninn’s Kiss

Edited By: Juniper
2010-01-23 09:20:37

“You will die many times to be reborn in this religion, and each little death is the resurrection of new hope and spirit.” ~ Robert Cochrane (Roy Bowers)

muninnskiss
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

As with all laws, they depend on the interpretation of them.  For example, what would people here think is “necessary”?  I prefer to work out my own code of ethics, which isn’t as simple as a law but is something I know (most of the time) and when I don’t then I have to figure out the answer and make it one I can live with.

Guest
Guest
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

Do not do what you desire – do what is necessary.
Take all you are given – give all of yourself.
“What I have – I hold!”
When all else is lost, and not until then, prepare to die with dignity

Sounds suicidal upon initial impression.

Upon further reading . . . . . wow  hit that one pretty close the guy did end up committing suicide

I think these words  will hold various meanings according to the place where the reader is in their own journey. One may see practical while another sees spiritual, – one  sees transparent while another sees opaque.

I am vaguely aware that he played an role in the revision of traditional witch craft in England . He  was also overtly intolerant of wiccian witch craft and was critical of Gradian.

So far as history goes he has not displayed any behavior I want to emulate personally. I find it difficult to apply  advice offered  by those whose behaviors or attitudes I  do not wish to have manifested in my own life.

What I have written is an initial impression based upon very  early  information therefore my opinion may change as my studies progress.

As far as laws are concerned I am probably in a blinded phase concerning  this because I am still  recovering from my previous spiritual path which was loaded down with  laws and forbiddances

*Freedom =   Letting go of what I should be, accepting who I am, endeavor to be become* mead original February 22,2010

mead
Shadow Walker
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

mead wrote:

As far as laws are concerned I am probably in a blinded phase concerning  this because I am still  recovering from my previous spiritual path which was loaded down with  laws and forbiddances  [/color]

I don’t much like laws myself – I think of rules as more as guidelines (and no, I’m not misquoting from Pirates of the Caribbean!) as I reckon 9 times out of 10 the rules are right and the 10th time you have to break them because it’s necessary.

Guest
Guest
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

Im a heathen witch a green Viking!

I use the Nine noble virtues

1.Courage
2.Truth
3.Honour
4.Fidelity
5.Discipline
6.Hospitality
7.Self Reliance
8.Industriousness
9.Perseverance

and environmentalism and fatherhood too

viking
I don’t HUG trees, I PLANT them.

Daxton
Green Viking!
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

Im a heathen witch a green Viking!

I guess having an identity probably helps with the structure areas. I have read a few places that taking a year to identify with any particular practice /path  isn’t unnecessarily long – I hope not there is a lot to look into, research and read.

I have noticed green witches, kitchen witches, broom riding witches and even hedge witches but I have not seen much on  garage witches.

I relate to the garage more than the kitchen.  People are much  safer with me under the hood of their car than they are with me loose in their kitchen

and environmentalism and fatherhood too

Never been a father – only a “mother” and in more way than one.

I can relate to environmentalism though. My husband and I are in the recycling business – wood and metal. In essence recycling is my “life” so to speak.

*Freedom =   Letting go of what I should be, accepting who I am, endeavor to be become* mead original February 22,2010

mead
Shadow Walker
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

I guess having an identity probably helps with the structure areas. I have read a few places that taking a year to identify with any particular practice /path  isn’t unnecessarily long – I hope not there is a lot to look into, research and read.

There  is more than 10 people could learn in their whole lifetimes, if they devoted everyday to the study and practice of witchcraft, let alone paganism.

It’s just darn … old and big …

That is where

Do not do what you desire – do what is necessary.

comes into play. What do you need, deep down? What fundamental things make you happy? If you really think about it, doing bad things doesn’t make you happy, certainly not in the long run.

As Buddha says,

the cause of suffering is desire

.

(A fav of mine)
I should not suffer for lack of a fancy sofa to sit upon, and really, deep down I do not. However, I DO suffer deep down when I desire LOVE and lack it…

That is how you choose what to study and how to practice.

What matters? What is necessary?

For myself, it is service to my gods, helping animals, being a steward of the land, living on a mountainside at the edge of the forest.
My clan, kith and kin, my ancestors, my community.
Being but one more person out there doing my own thing, adding my voice, my vote, living as green as I can, being one more blade in the grass roots movement that is modern paganism and Earth centered spirituality.
It is connecting with the land, contacting the divine, being one with nature, walking in Otherworlds.
Seeking near forgotten lore…

These things are what I need to grow and live and love and laugh as human and spiritual being.

Also, you do not choose a Path and then conform yourself to suit it. Rather you first must

Know Thyself

(a personal favourite of mine, found in many traditions, including many witchcrafts trads. Also one of the mottos abouve the entrance to the Oracle of Delphi)
and then choose a Path that fits the best, the conform it to suit YOU.

And expect to grow and change lots along the way.

Observe the wonders as they occur around you.
Don’t claim them.
Feel the artistry moving through, and be silent.
~ Rumi

Juniper
Hedge Mistress
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

muninnskiss wrote:

Do not do what you desire – do what is necessary.
Take all you are given – give all of yourself.
“What I have – I hold!”
When all else is lost, and not until then, prepare to die with dignity.

I think for witchcraft I can see how it makes sense. We dont really need to do love spells do we maybe he is saying we should only do magic when we need to and not just cause we wanna? But I dunno about everyday life though.

Take all your given sounds greedy but maybe its not and giving all of yourself is dangerous people who do that get burned out. and walked all over.

What I have I hold sounds greedy and immature to me but maybe Im missing the point. How do you give all of yourself and hold what you have?

I like the last one it makes me think of knights and paladins. I think its saying  that you should fight until you cant and then go with dignity.

I like the Wiccan Rede but I know a lot of nonwiccans dont. I also like know yourself.

*
Plants cry their gratitude for the sun in green joy.  ~ Astrid Alauda
*

Dizzy Witch
Moderator
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

Dizzy Witch wrote:

I like the Wiccan Rede but I know a lot of nonwiccans dont. I also like know yourself.

I like both the wiccan rede and know thy self for their simplicity. I don’t have to contemplate and speculate for six months to figure out what the “fry” they mean.

Wisdom is taking the complicated and simplifying it to the point of useful revelation. So I do agree with your preference for the direct approach. Writing in ambiguity  serves to increase confusion which in my opinion doesn’t take much in the way of wisdom. I say this as some one who is naturally confused any way which probably accounts for my preference for the direct approach to revelation

Juniper wrote:

There  is more than 10 people could learn in their whole lifetimes, if they devoted everyday to the study and practice of witchcraft, let alone paganism.
It’s just darn … old and big

You have a valid point ,  there is a lot  more than I will probability learn in my life time Yet it seems the more I read the more I feel  all paths are part of the same whole.

The words I would use to describe what I am feeling is that there are more facets to God than I can possibly learn in a life time.

juniper wrote:

Do not do what you desire – do what is necessary.

They are one in the same thing to me, which  possibly why Cochrane’s words made no sense. The above quote is written as if the two are  two separate entities.

I had not thought about them being separate

Some times I can be so clueless of the obvious so the clarification is appreciated.

juniper wrote:

then choose a Path that fits the best, the conform it to suit YOU.

I admit this is opposite than what I have been taught up until now. As a person  I am so tired of trying to conform to some ones else way. To be honest this is the single most exciting thing about  leaving the Christian path.

It is individualizing my path from the inside out that makes all the  discomfort of being new to this approach worth while.

*Freedom =   Letting go of what I should be, accepting who I am, endeavor to be become* mead original February 22,2010

mead
Shadow Walker
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

juniper wrote:

Being but one more person out there doing my own thing, adding my voice, my vote, living as green as I can, being one more blade in the grass roots movement that is modern paganism and Earth centered spirituality.

There is still identity to a group larger than ones self that provides a certain amount of structure in beliefs and perhaps in spiritual practices. {individual mileage may vary}

In the expression quoted above it is called modern paganism and earth centered spirituality – Of the former I am unsure of my placement as of yet  but of the latter  the decision was made before I was born . I have always known God in nature – I still look at sun sets, storms ,  the land, all that is to life   and wonder how people can see such and even be a part of that which is yet  still claim there is no God.

I accept that others see various gods and goddesses  and the balance  between male and female deities makes perfect sense. The more I learn of paganism  oddly enough the more I understand the Christian faith I left

I also understand why church leaders see paganism as such a threat. It isn’t the difference they feel threaten by it is the similarities

juniper wrote:

Also, you do not choose a Path and then conform yourself to suit it. Rather you first must
Quote
Know Thyself

I believe that I do – some times better than I present as language is not an easy thing for me.

juniper wrote:

What matters? What is necessary?

Being, experiencing, knowing, expressing  and caring .

*Freedom =   Letting go of what I should be, accepting who I am, endeavor to be become* mead original February 22,2010

mead
Shadow Walker
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

I like both the Wiccan Rede and know thy self for their simplicity. I don't have to contemplate and speculate for six months to figure out what the “fry” they mean.

I like the Rede, though my one main complaint about it is that you can go through your whole life and never harm anything … and also never DO anything too. I am perhaps a little more proactive than that.

Also, you can swear on the Hedge, we just don’t do it very often. (look Ma, no fucking censors!)

Wisdom is taking the complicated and simplifying it to the point of useful revelation.

Actually, that is understanding and also teaching (of knowledge). Wisdom is the application of said knowledge/revelation.

Writing in ambiguity serves to increase confusion which in my opinion doesn't take much in the way of wisdom.

I agree

I say this as some one who is naturally confused any way which probably accounts for my preference for the direct approach to revelation

Welcome to a Mystery Tradition. It’s a little different than a revealed religion. We don’t have all the answers, we don’t even know all of which questions to ask.
We are all just fumbling along through the woods as best we can.
The greatest guru in the world could reveal everything thing he knows to you, and in the end, you’d just be left with the understanding that you know next to nothing.
Enjoy.

Yet it seems the more I read the more I feel all paths are part of the same whole.

Truth. All Paths lead to the Divine.

The words I would use to describe what I am feeling is that there are more facets to God than I can possibly learn in a life time.

Oh yes, but what fun exploring the ones I can in this life. Especially the part of the divine that is within me.

It is individualizing my path from the inside out that makes all the discomfort of being new to this approach worth while.

Breath the free air my friend!

I have always known God in nature – I still look at sun sets, storms , the land, all that is to life and wonder how people can see such and even be a part of that which is yet still claim there is no God.

Your preaching’ to the choir sister!

The more I learn of paganism oddly enough the more I understand the Christian faith I left

I hear that a lot from former Christians.

I believe that I do – some times better than I present as language is not an easy thing for me.

And hence, a Mystery Tradition. How does one put into something as meagre and awkward as word the moment you feel that connection with something greater than all of it … how do you describe the divinity of a tree?
Ahhh though I do try …
This is why so many pagans resort to poetry I think.

Being, experiencing, knowing, expressing and caring

Simply, Yes.

Also, on the topic of Virtue:

http://www.deos-shadow.com/?p=68

Observe the wonders as they occur around you.
Don’t claim them.
Feel the artistry moving through, and be silent.
~ Rumi

Juniper
Hedge Mistress
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

There is still identity to a group larger than ones self that provides a certain amount of structure in beliefs and perhaps in spiritual practices. {individual mileage may vary}

http://blog.beliefnet.com/apagansblog/2 … liefs.html

(double posts are allowed here because I do it plenty lol)

Observe the wonders as they occur around you.
Don’t claim them.
Feel the artistry moving through, and be silent.
~ Rumi

Juniper
Hedge Mistress
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

I like the Rede, though my one main complaint about it is that you can go through your whole life and never harm anything … and also never DO anything too. I am perhaps a little more proactive than that.

Perhaps it is a mater of perspective – this is where language often fails us all. Harming none could be as you say due to lack of activity or  the activity could be implied in that through your activity harm none.

Above all do no harm is part of the medical oath taken by doctors and it is a given that they are actively participating in life

Also, you can swear on the Hedge, we just don’t do it very often. (look Ma, no fucking censors!)

LAMO
Hmm locating clearer for my monitor must mop up  soda spew

And hence, a Mystery Tradition. How does one put into something as meagre and awkward as word the moment you feel that connection with something greater than all of it … how do you describe the divinity of a tree?
Ahhh though I do try …
This is why so many pagans resort to poetry I think.

I do enjoy the writing of others  and have enjoyed your on several occasions  . .

double posts are allowed here because I do it plenty lol

Cool – I enjoying not having to worry about it . . . probably the same as you do  when you visit the flip side. It is nice to have some one else be at the helm.

Thanks for the links –

*Freedom =   Letting go of what I should be, accepting who I am, endeavor to be become* mead original February 22,2010

mead
Shadow Walker
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

mead wrote:

I have always known God in nature – I still look at sun sets, storms ,  the land, all that is to life   and wonder how people can see such and even be a part of that which is yet  still claim there is no God.

Because they’re not properly seeing.  However, I know witches who don’t have any deities and who am I to decide that they need to have a deity in their life?  If the deities want to contact them, they will.

Guest
Guest
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

Nope I am not a member of deity enforcement – I agree that this is and always should remain an individual freedom

I am just amazed that some things that is obvious to me would be missed by any one – but I am also the type of person who would fall over an elephant in her livingroom for lack of noticing – I have a small livingroom

*Freedom =   Letting go of what I should be, accepting who I am, endeavor to be become* mead original February 22,2010

mead
Shadow Walker
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

mead wrote:

but I am also the type of person who would fall over an elephant in her livingroom for lack of noticing – I have a small livingroom

:lol  I generally need to be hit over the head by deity before I notice them

Guest
Guest
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

Juniper wrote:

I like the Rede, though my one main complaint about it is that you can go through your whole life and never harm anything … and also never DO anything too. I am perhaps a little more proactive than that.

This is perhaps the main reason that I do not subscribe the Wiccan Rede. I also think we should have more positive, proactive values.

Writing in ambiguity serves to increase confusion which in my opinion doesn't take much in the way of wisdom.

In relation to that point, this might interest you:
“<i>To be deep and to seem deep. – He who knows himself to be deep strives for clarity; he who would like to seem deep to the masses strives to achieve obscurity. For the masses regard as deep whatever they cannot see the reason for; the masses are so fearful and go so unwillingly into the water.</i>”
– Nietzsche, <i>The Gay Science</i>, § 173.

Thank you for posting the link to the interview with me on Deo&#39;s Shadow! 🙂

WickedRabbit
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

 

muninnskiss wrote:

In Robert Cochrane’s sixth letter to Joe Wilson, he named what he called the Witch “Law”:

[etc.]

This is a curious statement. Part of the point of witchcraft, understood from an anthropological point of view, is that witchcraft has no laws – it is, after all, the practice of magic by people who, because they practice magic, are outsiders (to say nothing of the practice of malicious magic). I wonder if Cochrane mentioned this law in order to merely <i>describe</i> how witches behave, or if he felt he was <i>perscribing</i> how they <i>should</i> behave.

Anthropology aside, I don’t think that our values should be expressed in the form of laws anyway, or perhaps I should say our <i>highest</i> and most spiritual values shouldn’t be expressed as laws. But having said that, perhaps the idea of law can be used as a poetic device? In that way, perhaps it could be compared to Kipling’s “Law of the Jungle”, which is a poetic expression of the importance of social co-operation. Here’s a link:

http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/k … ungle.html

WickedRabbit
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

I do not take all that is given I suppose I look gift horses in the mouth. Some gifts are more – or less – than you think they are.

The truth is all witch “laws” are mandates to think for ourselves. There are no absolutes in witchcraft. The world is a balance of light and dark and the shades between.

Religion can bring out the best or worst in human nature. A community needs moral codes an individual needs personal ethics.

I live my life according to my personal ethics, not the rules created by another.  And certainly not rules created by such an odd and troubled young man as Cochrane.

I have responsibilities to the Land first and foremost.

Understanding of the consequences and motivations of your actions is key.

I learn from nature.

I honor the gods and the dead.

I protect and defend what is mine and what I believe is good and right.

Know what you are doing. Act with eyes wide open.

Treat others the same way you would want to be treated.

“We are such stuff
As dreams are made on, and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.”
From The Tempest

Broom Riding Vikki
Moderator
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

What I have – I hold!

What I have I am responsible for. I should not let it be taken away but give it freely as a gift or not at all.

hmmm…..

Observe the wonders as they occur around you.
Don’t claim them.
Feel the artistry moving through, and be silent.
~ Rumi

Juniper
Hedge Mistress
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

Although it is not traditionally associated with Witchcraft I like Crowley’s  Thelema

“Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. … Love is the law, love under will”

It ties in quick nicely with “Know thyself”

Bless your bees.<br /><br />Dan

SeekerInTheHedge
useravatar

Re: Witch Law…

I agree. Know who you are and the motivations behind what you do, and make those motivations be based on love and confidence in your self and your will. For at the very core of all of us, we are creatures of love and seeking love  smile

Observe the wonders as they occur around you.
Don’t claim them.
Feel the artistry moving through, and be silent.
~ Rumi

Juniper
Hedge Mistress
useravatar

Directions and Elements Discussion

Directions and Elements

Do you use the Wiccan directions? Shamanic directions.  The Celtic land, sky, sea? Something else? Mostly I use the Wiccan one but Im getting tired of it.

*
Plants cry their gratitude for the sun in green joy.  ~ Astrid Alauda
*

Dizzy Witch
Moderator
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I associate the 4 directions with the Medicine Wheel. I don’t call on Guardians or Watchtowers or anything; I just stick with the elements and powers of the directions (North = earth, east = air, south = fire and west = water). Sometimes I visualize my totem animals around the circle too, as many years ago I did an exercise where you end up with special animals for each of the four directions.

Is that the kind of thing you mean?

Hail Thor!

FernGreen
Witch
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

When I cast a circle I use the Wiccan directions/elements starting with East. In my morning devotions I give thanks for my blessings from: East, West, North, South, Above, Below, Within, All-Around, and Transcendent, which makes 9. That’s basically the Shamanic set, but I don’t do Left/Right.

“Order is what happens when chaos loses its temper.” -Roy Wagner

Hawthorne
Bohemian Hedgewitch
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

Sorry to dig up old threads, I just found this one interesting.

I use a hybrid between the Irish duille, a rune risting, Wiccan elements (though placed differently), and the three realms common to American Druidry… All squeezed into one of many personal interpetations of 1734.

1 = 7 = 3 + 4…

1 is all.

7 is many many things but for directional purposes… Up, down, center, east, south, west, north.

3 is the three realms.

4 is the cardinal directions.

So for those who like lists it would fall as such;

East: Air
South: Fire
West: Earth
North:Water
Up: Sky/Magh Mor
Center: Land/here/Mide
Below: Sea/Ilse of Annwn/Tir Andomain

Boidh se! <br />-Spanish Moss <br /><br />”Lost in a thicket bare-footed upon a thorned path.”

Spanish Moss
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I use land, sea and sky in spells.  It’s worked very well so far, but that’s because in using land, sea and sky I’m also using the sacred number 3.

Guest
Guest
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I invoke spirits of the north, east, south, and west in spellwork, starting with the north.

Calligrafiti
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

 

Sorry to dig up old threads, I just found this one interesting.

Personally I am glad you did, it is new to me too.

Stones  metal and herbs – Natave American influenced,shamanism – the spirits are strong for this in Texas. A starting place  for the curious Healing arts – native links

I do not use circles nor can I do any magic that requires me to know which way north is because I haven&#39;t a clue and nudity is not an option for the easily sun burned. Naturally I am sort of new at this but then again  sort of not. I am one of the millions who have been doing stuff that is classified as magic most of my life  I just never knew it had a name.

*Freedom =   Letting go of what I should be, accepting who I am, endeavor to be become* mead original February 22,2010

mead
Shadow Walker
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I find the land, sea and sky is simple and effective, so is using what the landscape around the offers. “Hail pine tree, hail mountainside, hail sky, hail Sun, hail cool looking rock! Hail all that dwell here!”

If I am in a place that I know well, like at home, I will actually write a poem to use like this:
http://walkingthehedge.net/blog/2009/04 … landscape/

(digging up old posts is just fine)

Observe the wonders as they occur around you.
Don’t claim them.
Feel the artistry moving through, and be silent.
~ Rumi

Juniper
Hedge Mistress
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I like your poem, it’s very powerful.

Guest
Guest
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

Tonight I did a meditation to feel the energies of the three elements Land, Sea, and Sky. I must say, feeling these three elements was much easier for me than it ever was to feel the classic four elements that Wiccans and Hermetic types prefer.

androgino
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

 

QuercusRobur wrote:

I like your poem, it’s very powerful.

I’ll second that!

“Order is what happens when chaos loses its temper.” -Roy Wagner

Hawthorne
Bohemian Hedgewitch
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I have come to the conclusion now that each person should or may want to experiment so that they can understand which set is right for them. For me the result has been that the Land, Sea, Sky set makes me feel connected with the whole globe.. all of nature (just this planet though). In the past I have worked with the Wiccan & Hermetic Earth, Air, Fire, Water set and it does not give me that resonance. Working with the four directions themselves also isn’t something that resonates with me.

For those of you who work with the four elements and their corresponding directions, do you feel connected with our whole planet or perhaps the whole universe? If none of these, what do you get out of it? =)

androgino
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

Ive never felt connected to anything using the four directions ceremonial style I once went to a Trad Witch rite and they did a Compass Rose that was amazing and it had the four directions and other things. But mostly now I use the Land Sea and Sky but theres no sea near me so its more like Land Lake and Sky lol I can actually feel like I am connecting to the land and nature that way.

*
Plants cry their gratitude for the sun in green joy.  ~ Astrid Alauda
*

Dizzy Witch
Moderator
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

i am directionally challenged i would look so stupid in circle i never know which way i’m pointed. i will call on the watchers if i am in a more formal setting or use a respresentation for the elements. mainly i just go to my backyard and sing to my plants. Amazing things happen! Where does that put me? in the kiddie section, running the arts and crafts table? 😀

Minerva
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I’ve never felt connected with the four classical elements either.  I think the Celtic three connect us more to the place we’re one and the classical four are a bit too abstract to connect us to places.

Guest
Guest
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I have found that the four elements/directions have never really made me feel connected to a place either.  Then again, looking at the liturgy for creating sacred space within Wicca or Ceremonial Magick is not about connecting to the nature place around you.  It all seems to be about creating a bubble that isolates you from the “mundane” realm.  I am now using the Celtic tradition of land, sea, sky.  It seems to work much better for me.  That being said I have a very strong connection with the element of fire and honour that element in my rituals.

Bless your bees.<br /><br />Dan

SeekerInTheHedge
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

“Sea” feels hard to relate to from a landlocked country.

What do I “get out of” the the four (five) classical elements? I feel that by isolating their powers through their names and attaching associations I gain access to the essence of all forms and ideas as I know them. So yes, connection to the planet, the universe, and perhaps more importantly for the sake of magick, my own mind and experiences.

“Order is what happens when chaos loses its temper.” -Roy Wagner

Hawthorne
Bohemian Hedgewitch
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I tend to use the four directions/elements but I don’t feel any special connections to a path.  That’s just what feels instinctively “right” to me.  One thing that I have noticed is that water is simply “water” to me, rather than the sea.  Many paths celebrate water as the sea, which is understandable with all the symbolism involved.  (salt water, birthing, mysteries of the deep, all that good stuff)  But I’ve always loved the elements as all it’s permutations.  Snow, rain, sea water, running water, the water that sleeps beneath the earth…  Water is an amazing element.  Maybe it’s because I live in the desert now or because I’m a water sign, but I love this element so much!

When I was a kid and living on the Judeo Christain religious calendar, the New Year started in January.  But it always seemed a little off to me.  That “new year” feeling always came at the end of August/beginning of September for me.  New clothes, new books, moving forward into a new school.  It gave me much more of a feeling like I was going somewhere, a feeling of movement that was simply missing for me in January.  (I grew up in Michigan, btw, and spent so much time at the Lakes in the summer which may also explain the water affinity somewhat.)  But when we moved down here, to the where we have summer thunderstorms, the monsoons.  And for the Native Americans down here the mosoons were the beginning of the New Year.  This makes total sense to me.  Nowadays, it still seems like like the physical new year starts in August, but the spiritual one starts at Yule.

Chilopsis: just another willow wench

Chilopsis
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

 

QuercusRobur wrote:

I’ve never felt connected with the four classical elements either.  I think the Celtic three connect us more to the place we’re one and the classical four are a bit too abstract to connect us to places.

I feel this way too.
the three, plus I feel that Fire is the blender of the realms & is part of each realm. Every one will use what connects with them best, each there own way. Though whether that is the way that ancestor’s connected is another matter as we are living in a separate time from them. We can only find & connect with what work best for us…

About the realm of Sea for me this is any flowing water or pound, lake, rain, snow, what have you that is near or within my body if no where else near by. For that matter all the realms are with in ones body plus Fire/ current/ energy no matter where you are. For these are not just the Three physical realms…For me they are also the Upperworld, Middle, and Otherworld. the Three realms are not Elements in the sense that ceremonialists use them, but what is there all a round and with in. They are not symbolic they are all, they are Nature & all her beings. I feel that is a big reason when those of us who connect & blend this way feel connected it is because we are focusing on being connected in stead of contained or controling what direction parts of nature could be focused or controlled from. We are working with instead of apart that is a big difference.

Like I say this is just how I feel, to each their own way.  smile

Go with the ebb & Flow…Peace,Willow

Willow
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I began with the 4 Wiccan elements and I don’t mind them.  Once I began moving away from the Wiccan path into something more my own, I started to prefer the concept of 3 elements- land, sea, sky.  Part of the reason I liked it was because it corresponded well to the 3 states of matter- solid, liquid and gas.  Heh, heh, blame my atheist scientist father smile!

Still, sometimes when I call only three elements I have this nagging sensation that something is missing.  I suspect this is an example of ‘cultural programming’ and habit.  Due to its accessibility and popularity, Wiccan concepts of the elements has become the default option.  It kind of reminds me of how I will still swear using the Christian deity, although I have never been baptized or even been to church!

Hearthwitch.

Hearthwitch
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

This is perhaps a very personal thing but what resonates with me is something that I do every day.  It started as an attempt to meditate on the sundeck.  (Sounds posh, eh – just showing off – we live in a tiny apartment.)  This public deck is rarely occupied except by me, faces east on the western side of a long ocean inlet on the west coast and looks over mountains and sea.  The sky is constantly changing but always beautiful and this just came to my mind without any conscious thought …

‘Mountains, Sky and Sea,
Goddess, be in me.’

It needs a picture to even hint at how powerful this is to me … as below.  Juniper, I’m so glad you have this wonderful, high-powered web/hedge space so I don’t need to feel badly about posting a picture – I really chuckled at the thought of your little hedge growing up.

Spiritchild
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

 

Hearthwitch wrote:

I began with the 4 Wiccan elements and I don’t mind them.

Actually the “Wiccan” elements go back a lot further to the Greeks and Romans.  They’re generally called “the classical elements”.  Wicca’s just incorporated them in at a late stage in their life – so to speak.

Guest
Guest
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

 

QuercusRobur wrote:

[quote author=Hearthwitch link=topic=202.msg4910#msg4910 date=1251861426]
I began with the 4 Wiccan elements and I don’t mind them.

Actually the “Wiccan” elements go back a lot further to the Greeks and Romans.  They’re generally called “the classical elements”.  Wicca’s just incorporated them in at a late stage in their life – so to speak.

That is very true.  I decided to add the ‘Wiccan’ as that was where I derived my original teaching.  I also think that some Wiccan concepts of the elements differ from those from ancient Greece or Rome.  If I remember correctly (and it’s been quite a few years since I read about this), Aristotle formed his concepts of elements as a scientific attempt at explaining the properties of the universe.  It’s a very old attempt at creating a Periodic Table.  Elements used in Wicca and other spiritual traditions are generally acknowledged as a metaphors for greater concepts/powers.  They are no longer the building blocks of the universe but general concepts for describing the world.

Hearthwitch.

Hearthwitch
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

That’s interesting how Wicca sees the elements.  I’ll have to think about that.

Guest
Guest
useravatar

Re: Directions and Elements

I was in a toy shop last week buying some cards for my son and came across 10-sided die for sale at the register. Since I work with 9 directions I was like “WOW!” and immediately bought 2 for use as divination tools. Since I always address the 9 directions in the same order, that is how they are assigned on the dice. And the 10th side, which is marked as ‘0’? I’ve left that one be a non-answer.

“Order is what happens when chaos loses its temper.” -Roy Wagner

Hawthorne
Bohemian Hedgewitch
useravatar