Leaving the West and Something to Think About
November 5th, 2009 | 
Author: Had a blast in Calgary and in Regina. I will write more about our wonderful experinces in the West as soon as I can 
Many thanks to our gracious hosts Susan in Calgary and Erin in Regina (and their families) I will wax poetic about what wonderful hosts they are … when I have a bit more time and am on my own computer.
Today we head for Winnipeg! The city my mother was born in. Hurrah!
In the meantime, I will leave you all with something to ponder, something that has come up a little on our journey meeting Pagans from all over.
In one of the places we visited, we were told by a few different people (all independently) that there was a division and some strain in their community. We mentioned this to a couple of the leaders in that community. At first they seemed quite happy to use the Solitaries, Newbies, Teen Pagans and Ecletics as scapegoats (like many Pagan Leaders I have met, GRRR!)
Anyways….
They then kept insisting there was NO split because they feel the Leaders do get along very well.
(huh no spilt but you are happy to sacrifice the Solitaries and Newbies eh? hmmmmm I smell a rat)
So I asked them this:
If you say that the Leaders and Elders in your community all get along just fine, but your community says otherwise … are you leading by example? Do the members of your community SEE their Leaders & Elders getting along? Do they see you talk, do you organize events together? Do they see you going out for a beer together?
The answer I recieved from said Leaders was:
“Um … well, NO”
So …
Dear Leaders and Elders, do you get along with other Elders and Leaders in your community? Especially ones from other Paths, Groups and Trads? And, more importantly, does the community SEE it with their own eyes? Do you lead by example? Do you encourage or discourage people in your group to get along with other Pagans from other groups and Trads? And how do you justify blaming Solitaries for problems between groups they do not belong to? Why are Solitaries, Ecletics and Newbies to blame for your failings as Leaders?
And dear lowly ordinary Pagans, Heathen and Witches, do you SEE your Leaders get along? Do YOU feel they Lead by example and build bridges, or do you feel that is not the case? Do your Leaders and Elders encourage or discourage people in your group to get along with other Pagans from other groups and Trads? Do you feel pressured to pick on Solitaries etc?
And, are you a Solitary, Newbies, teen or Eclectic? Are you sick to death of being the fall-guy, the scapegoat, the one the community walks all over … all because you lack a group to support you and guard your back? Because I know I am! Do you feel that your Leaders and Elders encourage solidarity or division? Do you feel picked on because you do not belong to a group?
Think about it, and please post a comment or make your own blog post.
I am not asking this or mentioning this to be nasty or pick on anyone, but as someone who has wandered all over North America and met many Pagans from many places, I see this is a common theme and I think we need to open up a dialogue about it :)
Cheers!
Posted in Community, Life of a Hedgewitch, Rantings & Ravings | 
Tags: Community, Elders, ethics, Life of a Hedgewitch, news, Paths & Traditions, updates, values
7 Responses to “Leaving the West and Something to Think About”
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Scapegoating certainly does occur but I believe the problem is much more sinister than many can imagine.
It comes down to a person’s moral dialogue with the world. If you are a leader or “elder” (usually self proclaimed) and you treat people with disrespect or abuse; lie; conspire; coerce and threaten, people within any community will only tolerate you for so long. The problem is that no one feels empowered to call these people out so it remains behind the scenes in whispers and innuendo with the offending party being the one with all the control, usually because they have the loudest voice and rule in fear. This situation causes good people to retreat from “community”; close off and do their own thing just to avoid the constant headache and drama that inevitably happens when dealing with people who are corrupt.
Experience has taught me, if an “elder” or “leader” is pointing fingers at anyone for divisions in a community its in fact themselves that are the likeliest of culprits.
Hi, Juniper
I’m glad to hear your journey is going well!
I just wanted to add my two cents in here, especially as I was a part of that conversation. I think we should have stayed on the subject a bit longer so we could have elaborated, but I’ll use this opportunity now to do so.
Divisions in the community – there are some, yes. This group has a problem with that group, or individual, or whatever. Some are based on personal experiences, others on hearsay or gossip. When we were solitary, we heard an unbelievable amount of slamming at every event we went to, and I’m sure it still happens. When a newbie first steps out into the community and hears all this, it can definitely seem like the community is divided and in chaos. Is there strain? Yes. Is there a large division? I don’t think so.
The biggest witch wars we have witnessed in this city have been between individuals – not groups in general. There is no blaming of one type of pagan over another, though, as problems exist in all areas, and I apologize if the comment made seemed like the blame was one over another.
Everybody does not get along with everyone else, of course, but I honestly don’t think that the problem is worse here than anywhere else.
I don’t agree with your point about the community not seeing cooperation between groups, though, and I don’t remember saying otherwise. As individuals or as a group we go to any events we find of interest, no matter who is holding it, and encourage our clann members to do so as well. We also hold open celebrations with an invitation to anyone in the community who wishes to attend. We have Wiccans, Witches, Heathens, Eclectics, and others attend, both solitaries and members of other groups, and we all get along! We have attended the local Wiccan church’s events and even hosted a CR celebration for them. We know most of the leaders of groups in the community as well as many, many solitaries.
The community at large DOES see us cooperating and socializing, both online and at events. Do ALL groups cooperate? Heck, no. Some are secretive and don’t join the community at large, some don’t care to cooperate and do their own thing, and some have other reasons. But some of us try to do the best we can, both as individuals and as groups.
Everyone has the right to choose whether or not they want to go to an event, and sometimes they will decide not to due to who the hosts are or who else may be attending. There also may be a volatile history between people/groups/ etc. that is not widely known or publicly talked about – which it shouldn’t be anyway, in my opinion – which can affect decisions.
I will admit there are individuals in this community I have lost all respect for and/or don’t trust due to personal experiences. It doesn’t matter if they are solitary or part of a group, though – it is the individual that has earned this, not the group/church/society/association they may or may not belong to. I think this is an important distinction.
I apologize for rambling. It’s late and I should head off to bed. Feel free to ask me to elaborate or clarify anything and I’ll do my best to do so.
Beannacht,
Aislinn
How much of the lack of being willing to play together is the elders not being willing an today’s society encouraging everyone to be their of high preistess?
How can we listen to our elders when we(as pagans/wiccans) run off and do our own thing because we won’t be oprressed?
I have been practicing Wicca for over 10 years, most of that activly involved in my community and in contact with a coven. I have put on a public ceremony with friends for Beltaine and we all gather, we plan all sorts of events and i am friends with many of them.. yet then clusters begin.
Part of the question (I think) is whether the elders are inclusive enough; or are some of the younglings/newbies simply too hot headed…
What I can see from my mountain top is this. When a finger is waved at the arragant to oblivious pagans, they continue their behavior and at times increase that which is annoying. But, if continually ignored yet still invited with positive redirection, there might be some fringe ‘other’ pagans who will stop and note the positive side and follow the light and love. Those who do not stop and evaluate their path will be carried along with the tides of whoever had the best ability to influence which is not always in a positive manner. Let the negative keep the negative. Let the positive attract more positive.
So I would recommend that doing some critical analysis with regards to those around you. Take a chance, take the time, be alone, be positive, and attract better people which will eventually make a beautiful community.
You can’t stop the darkness but you certainly can shine brighter to tell others where you are.
Mighty Blessings,
L.S. Alabaster
Thank-you for acknowledging and addressing this issue! Bravo!!
I tend to be solitary, however I have been both a leader and a minor celebrity.
I have experienced a lot of scapegoating. It sickens me, too. I have recently noticed more awareness of it being a problem, however, and this gives me some hope. I doubt it will ever be eliminated from our communities, yet I can see tremendous room for growth toward improvement and balance.
I have spent a lot of time pondering what the cause could be, because when I am in a leadership role I want to prevent it. I have come across a few likely factors. One of which is the love of rumours (I discuss my experience with this as a minor celeb here: http://www.misfitwomen.org/NaTasha.html). Another is the love of power (the old acknowledgement regarding how those most drawn to leadership roles are often not the trustworthy sort addresses part of this). A third is a general culture of blame, so fingers get pointed rather than underlying causes sought and addressed. Another is in the general culture, too: we tear each other down more readily than we build each other up. Cutting remarks are considered witty and entertaining.
I will risk this last: who in general is attracted to our faiths and communities? We wre on the edge, and we attract fringe folk. We have a very high percentage of people who don’t fit into “normal” society. A high percentage of people who need to carefully monitor their medications in order to function at all in society (this is not a deroggetory – sp? – statement, not a judgement. Just an observation.). While no community, especially faith community, is devoid of the scapegoating and negative leadership practices, our faiths attract many who simply have no idea what a healthy community looks and feels like, let alone how to be an active part of one.
Years ago (Good Gods, I think it’s 18!) I did a ritual for the Ottawa WCC temple. At the time the sole official WCC priestess of that temple was involved in scapegoating me for something. The ritual I did included a huge ball of yarn, and we had a silly-seeming game of tossing it around, each holding on to the part that met us. In two minutes it became an enormous tangled web: “Oh what tangled webs we weave…” I had everyone try to untangle it. Ten minutes later it was less than 1/4 untangled. I compared it to the rumours that were flying around the community. Everyone who passed on any piece of hearsay, gossip or rumour had participated in causing a tangle that could not be unravelled, and was harming the community. The passing on of rumours needed to stop, for it was hurting everyone. The lifting up a stone meditation followed, while everyone received a miniature ball of yarn to hold, to take with them, to hopefully remind them. There were a lot of tears before the meditation was over, led by that priestess’s sobbing. It did not end the rumours, but it did slow them down to a trickle for a few weeks. (The priestess still hates me)
I have seen these same problems, and causes, here in Europe. There are leaders who actively try to address them, and to set up a community culture that helps to prevent them. I have met them in North America and in Europe. Hope springs eternal.
Bright and dark blessings,
NaTasha Shastan Bertrand
I love that you addressed this issue!
Currently I have issue with my community.
Not because our leaders don’t get along, but due to ONE PERSON who has wreaked havoc in the lives of me, my friends and my sister. She tried to get my friend’s business shut down by calling Health Canada and her insurance company to FALSELY accuse her of using improper ingredients. She also has bad mouthed another friend’s company with no reason to (she got two free waist cinchers out of the deal, then just deleted my friend’s BUSINESS WEBSITE off her server out of spite). She has also gone about bad mouthing my sister and I to various members of the community. This doesn’t include hitting on every married and taken man at each Moot.
My sister and I have been involved in the community off and on for a decade, and for about 5 years of that decade firmly involved. When we have said “This woman has to stop her shenanigans.” to the Leaders of our community, we’re told she just wants attention, is crazy, and not to listen to her. Then she is given her way (I’ve asked to be able to do card readings at Moots to make extra money and was told that they’ll keep me in mind during vendor months, and then just OFFER this woman a place to do readings because she stamps and pouts).
She has already been removed from another area’s community (asked not to return), and has been involved in our community for about 2 years now.
It’s to the point where 5 (or more) upstanding, participating, raffle prize donating, volunteering members of the community are no longer attending community functions because of this woman, and because the community leaders will NOT step up and say “Listen, you cannot behave this way and use the Moots to further your agenda against other people.”
Oh yeah, and what started this “throw down”? My group of friends decided they didn’t want to be friends with this woman because she has lied to us from the start about many things (including her father having the early stages of Alzheimer’s) in order to manipulate us. We wised up, and now we’re suddenly the “bad guys”. And no leader or member of the community is willing to say to her “I don’t appreciate you talking badly about these people”, and instead write us emails laying out what she has said, and adding they don’t want to get involved.
*sigh*
While I don’t want them to “fix” my problems (I’m 30 years old, I can take care of my own issues), but this woman is using the community to her advantage, and will move on and do this to someone else (she apparently did the same thing to someone else before us). When is it time for Leaders to step in and put their foot down????
I cannot understand all that goes on in your communities as I am a solitary. I would like to be part of a community but because of where I live this is not possible. I think however this is a very important issue.
Without meaning to over simplify or patronise, there is something that can be done. At school where I teach families how to be families we tell the parents to ‘model’ the kind of behaviour they would want to see.
You cannot expect children to behave in an accepting socialised way if they see their parents doing the opposite.
I wonder whether this practice would help Elders. Let your communities see and hear about the connections you make with one another and celebrate those differences that you may have…just a thought.